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Sly_Lady August 18th, 2007 - 2:16 PM	Re: Lily Evans Potter – attempt at a character analysis Thank you for writing this wonderful, thoughtful essay, Nyctalus. I've been accused in another place of villifying Lily, for trying to express similar sentiments to yours, although in far less detail and less eloquently. I like the way you use the Tale of the Three Brothers to look at three key decisions that Lily made. After reading DH, I was delighted to see that Saint Lily was no more, and in her place is simply a teenage girl, with all the possibilities, all the love, all the naiveté and the ability to screw up that every 15 year old girl has. Yet again, many readers seem to cling to the saint, or the holy mother on her pedestal, as you put it. Great job!
Nyctalus August 18th, 2007 - 3:42 PM	Re: Lily Evans Potter – attempt at a character analysis Thanks Sly_Lady, I'm glad you liked it!  I guess this was just something that had been brooding for a while within me, coming from all the emotions reading DH, when we finally got to know more about the mysterious Lily... And I'm so happy it was actually Snape who provided the information. He must have had plenty of time throughout the years thinking about who was Lily and what did they do to each other, even if I imagine he would mostly have preferred avoiding the subject, with all the pain it contained. But, knowing all what's shown in Prince's Tale about her and much more, knowing she'd never be his, he still had the ability to love her the way he did. That's huge, I believe. I'm sorry you've been accused of "character bashing" - that's just too silly! Who would actually prefer a saint, a glorified image, before a real person? I'd feel extra sorry for Harry if he hadn't ever had the opportunity to get to know that his mother was more than a stone statue, worshipped by most people and loathed by her sister. A Lily of flesh and blood must have had flaws, just like anyone in the series, otherwise it would be impossible to truly love her...
subtle science August 18th, 2007 - 5:56 PM	Re: Lily Evans Potter – attempt at a character analysis I think you have defined Lily's character quite well..... She had very strong positive traits--but there was also the aspect of her being a bit of a show off........and being rather self-righteous.  But it's important that the most seen of Lily's character is when she is 15 years old; she acts like her age in how she reacts to Snape and James. A key point is that, even though she criticized him and never accepted his apology--or apologized to him, Snape never held any of these things against her:  as the whole plot line of DH demonstrates, truly loving someone means accepting the flaws and faults, as well as all the best bits. A Saint Lily is one who is misunderstood and underappreciated and made inhuman.  Such a figure can't be loved, but only worshipped, like some sort of icon.
Silver Ink Pot August 19th, 2007 - 12:08 AM	Re: Lily Evans Potter – attempt at a character analysis Nyctalus:  Inspired and Inspiring to me!    Thank you for writing about Lily! I especially like the structure of the Tale of Three Brothers, as well as the comparison of the Statues in the churchyard to the adoring statues at the DoM. And I think Snape's greatest gift is his unconditional love for Lily in spite of her personality and rejection.  And you are right - he had years to analyze her character, which in retrospect is naive.  I find her letter quite disturbing because she breaks every rule Harry has learned about "homeland security" during wartime."  She shouldn't have written such a detailed letter, and she shouldn't have talked about James's "excursions."  It just brings home the point again that the Marauders never grew up or really changed. Snape's view of Lily reminds me so much of the "selfish flower" who is worshipped by the Little Prince in Antoine de Sainte-Exupery's novel.  He knows her faults, but still wants to protect her, because for him, there is no one else.   From The Little Prince, Chapter 8 "So, too, she began very quickly to torment him with her vanity-- which was, if the truth be known, a little difficult to deal with. . . . Chapter 9 . . . he realised that he was very close to tears. "Goodbye," he said to the flower. But she made no answer. "Goodbye," he said again. The flower coughed. But it was not because she had a cold. "I have been silly," she said to him, at last. "I ask your forgiveness. Try to be happy..." He was surprised by this absence of reproaches. He stood there all bewildered, the glass globe held arrested in mid-air. He did not understand this quiet sweetness. "Of course I love you," the flower said to him. "It is my fault that you have not known it all the while. That is of no importance. But you-- you have been just as foolish as I. Try to be happy... let the glass globe be. I don't want it any more." "But the wind--" "My cold is not so bad as all that... the cool night air will do me good. I am a flower." "But the animals--" "Well, I must endure the presence of two or three caterpillars if I wish to become acquainted with the butterflies. It seems that they are very beautiful. And if not the butterflies-- and the caterpillars-- who will call upon me? You will be far away... as for the large animals-- I am not at all afraid of any of them. I have my claws." And, naïvely, she showed her four thorns. Then she added: "Don't linger like this. You have decided to go away. Now go!" For she did not want him to see her crying. She was such a proud flower...
Nyctalus August 19th, 2007 - 2:49 AM	Re: Lily Evans Potter – attempt at a character analysis Thanks subtle and SIP!! I agree that much of Lily’s naivety and self-centeredness at fifteen seems very natural and can surely be found in many kids that age. For example, it seemed like a big deal to her that she had to “make excuses” to her friends for being friendly to Severus. That doesn’t make me think their friendship meant so very much to her any more. Actually, it seems more like she thought she was now deigning herself to continue to see him, in spite of her other friends’ objections and opinions of him. It’s like Lily was struggling with herself about her mixed feelings for Severus for a long time, but had finally decided that he was “too bad” for her or “not worthy”… And when he finally lashed out at her with the slur, that was just the final stroke in her mind, the best excuse for her to sever ties. Not that he had ever done anything bad to her or to anyone she knew before, but he was aligned with people who were socially unacceptable to her and who surely despised her. It’s likely that Lily’s friends also despised him, but I don’t see that matter much to Severus – he was probably used to that attitude since forever, and it had nothing to do with his feelings for Lily. Lily doesn’t seem to have reflected at all over the background reasons for Severus’ situation, or try to help him, for that matter. But, certainly, how many people do actually reflect a lot at fifteen? The most important thing, as far as I can remember, is to feel you belong somewhere, to be accepted and to “fit in” socially. What Lily, who had all that, seemed to expect from Severus, though, was that he should abandon his social needs and probably have nobody except for her. Which would mean “unconditional love”, for sure, but only from his part…  But could he afford that at fifteen? Of course not – imagine both the Marauders and the Slytherins persecuting him at school, what would be left of him? I don’t think the “moral” implication of the “Dark Arts” ever meant much to Severus at that age; what was the difference, in his logic, between the Marauders tormenting someone for no specific reason and the Slytherin guys doing it? But for Lily it was important, and she could allow herself the luxury of having high moral standards (which in my opinion were actually double, but still...). SIP, I absolutely love that comparison to the Little Prince, one of my favourite stories! (Excellent thread about him, by the way, even if I haven’t posted so far, I’ve been lurking  : http://www.thehpn.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=28&topic=3768.0;all ) Here’s a quote from Ch 8 that I like: Quote But one day, from a seed blown from no one knew where, a new flower had come up; and the little prince had watched very closely over this small sprout which was not like any other small sprouts on his planet. It might, you see, have been a new kind of baobab. It’s like Severus watching Lily at the playground, isn’t it? She was something exceptional to him from the beginning. It also reminds me that she actually had a flower, and moved its petals with magic... Quote from: Silver Ink Pot (Little Prince, Ch 9) “You will be far away... as for the large animals-- I am not at all afraid of any of them. I have my claws." And, naïvely, she showed her four thorns. Then she added: "Don't linger like this. You have decided to go away. Now go!" For she did not want him to see her crying. She was such a proud flower... Poor Lily, left with the ”protection” of the four Marauders...    I can’t help wondering, though, how she actually felt about leaving he old friend… ETA: About the letter: I completely agree, SIP! At 21, Lily still seems rather clueless about the dangers of war and the necessary precautions to take. Long ago in real life, I've met people of that age, living in war conditions, even girls with kids have told me about their undercover or refugee life. They were forced to grow up early and couldn't afford to be naïve about security - they knew exactly what they could talk about openly and what not. But, then again, they didn't grow up in protected boarding schools... And I also imagine four years in company with the reckless Marauders might not exactly have made Lily face reality that much...
subtle science August 19th, 2007 - 4:15 AM	Re: Lily Evans Potter – attempt at a character analysis Every year at school the same eruption occurs--when Bestest Friends Ever! are no longer friends....whatever the combination is, invariably, as kids enter middle school and then upper school, old alliances fall apart as the friends change and develop.  One of the most common pressures on friendships is popularity:  when one half of the friendship becomes very popular for the first time--or both become very popular, but with different groups.....the strain breaks the bond.  And, of course, the single most important thing to any kid in grades 6-10, especially, is fitting in. In one way, Snape had matured far faster than Lily, because he had fallen in love, and that changed the nature of the relationship.  Lily, on the other hand, viewed him as a friend--and she was also busy making other friends and flirting and being 15.... Slughorn makes a number of references to Lily's spirit and "cheekiness'--that does imply a fairly bold, daring personality.  It seems likely that Lily fell for the Marauder's recklessness--everything was an adventure and about being cool.....Very close to irresistible to a 15-16 year old girl who's pretty daring herself.
Sly_Lady August 19th, 2007 - 5:03 AM	Re: Lily Evans Potter – attempt at a character analysis Watching again as my youngest daughter and her friends go through the middle school social Sorting makes me painfully aware of what you're saying, Subtle. Most kids come out of it fine, having found friends that they have more in common with as they develop, but it takes time and is often extremely painful. Lily is a resilient girl who would weather the transition well. Snape, on the other hand, is painfully aware that there is only one person in his life that he's ever mattered to, and she is literally his whole world. Having no one to guide him through the process of growing up, he couldn't understand what was happening, and with his lack of social prowess, he couldn't change. He was clueless, but James Potter was far from clueless. Snape's maturing faster than Lily, besides the fact that he fell in love with his friend, is because he had a rough life, and people who grow up deprived are forced to ignore their childhood and grasp for whatever they can find to help them survive. Snape was a survivor, tough and resilient, but not in a social sense. I'm curious about what JKR said about Lily, that if Snape had not turned to the Dark Arts, she might have loved and married Snape. Given the circumstances in their world that conspired to make Lily end their friendship at 15, how likely do you think it is that Lily could have chosen Snape instead of James? I have a hard time seeing it.
Nyctalus August 19th, 2007 - 5:41 AM	Re: Lily Evans Potter – attempt at a character analysis Quote from: subtle In one way, Snape had matured far faster than Lily, because he had fallen in love, and that changed the nature of the relationship.  Lily, on the other hand, viewed him as a friend--and she was also busy making other friends and flirting and being 15.... I think that's very true. The differences between them were huge; she was beautiful, popular, recieving a lot of attention from boys and had a group of giggling friends on her side (mentioned in SWM). Lily had a whole world to discover, forming opinions, going on adventures, flirting, eventually dating, joking, laughing, learning - and she had a lot of people in whose company she could do it. Sev, on the other hand, was an outsider who had never "fitted in" anywhere. He was neglected at home, just like Harry, and wore funny clothes, he was reserved and probably more interested in studying magic than fooling around. And the Marauder's bullying probably made it very difficult for him to relax and try to make friends with people. But a young guy needs to fit in with other guys, and it seems the only ones who would be of easy access to him were his fellow house-mates, some of them probably from brutal Death Eater homes or perhaps haughty pure-blooded families. But, of course, they were "tough guys", and to fit in with them you had probably also to handle the Dark Arts stuff, which was one of the few things where Severus measured up... I also think that Lily's and Sev's relationship was very uneven; the part who's less keen on it will be setting the conditions, as the other one will be ready to do much more to please his mate. So I guess Sev being in love with someone who didn't take it all quite so seriously might have been a bit bad for his self esteem, while bolstering up hers a bit too much. We can see it in their conversations; as soon as she gets upset with him he "backtracks": Quote You’re not going to – I won’t let you – ” “Let me? Let me?” Lily’s bright green eyes were slits. Snape backtracked at once. “I didn’t mean – I just don’t want to see you made a fool of – Quote from: Sly_Lady I'm curious about what JKR said about Lily, that if Snape had not turned to the Dark Arts, she might have loved and married Snape. Given the circumstances in their world that conspired to make Lily end their friendship at 15, how likely do you think it is that Lily could have chosen Snape instead of James? I have a hard time seeing it. I agree, it would be difficult at that stage - he was probably not at all what Lily was seeking those years. He wanted to protect her, but she couldn't see any dangers. All the things he could tell her when they were younger, all the mysteries of the magical world, well, she could now have it by herself, and from other people. He needed her for a series of reasons, but she didn't actually need him very much. But I could see her choosing him a bit later in life, once she had been going through a few things herself, once she'd had enough of the Marauder's adventurous rubbish and opened her eyes a bit more to reality. Unfortunately, she married and died extremely young...
subtle science August 19th, 2007 - 5:47 AM	Re: Lily Evans Potter – attempt at a character analysis It seems difficult to believe that, given what is shown of Lily's personality, that she would not have gone for a James-type....James is what most girls would elect to date in high school--decent looking, even if not exactly handsome; smart enough, without wanting to be perceived as a genius; the top athlete; popular and/or powerful, with a core group of friends to guarantee that social postion.  Add to it James' defiance of authority and sense of dangerous adventure, carried off with superficial charm, and Snape doesn't stand a chance.   Lily isn't the quiet, studious girl who prefer drawing or something off by herself, who might recognize Snape as a diamond in the rough; Snape, in Hogwarts, is not what girls like Lily are looking for..... Perhaps, had the story gone off in a different direction, given some more years, Lily would've come back around.  As a recent study showed--girls and young women like to date the likes of James and Sirius; what they prefer to marry, down the road, are the more stable, "nice" guys, who are more likely to be reliable husbands and responsible fathers. But, at age 15--social pressures are enormous....and really the only thing that matters in the histrionic 15-year-old world.
Silver Ink Pot August 19th, 2007 - 7:45 AM	Re: Lily Evans Potter – attempt at a character analysis I'm around teenagers alot, of all ages, and I think there is a world of difference between 15 and 19.  Lots of friendships do fall by the wayside, most of the time for the better, but sometimes kids cast away good friends for bad.  I do think popularity was going to Lily's head, but if there had been no James in her life, perhaps she might have kept trying with Severus.  But as pretty and vivacious as she was, I think someone else would have been a rival to him eventually anyway.  There are popular boys in all the Houses - a Cedric, for instance. Quote from: Sly Lady Snape's maturing faster than Lily, besides the fact that he fell in love with his friend, is because he had a rough life, and people who grow up deprived are forced to ignore their childhood and grasp for whatever they can find to help them survive. Snape was a survivor, tough and resilient, but not in a social sense. That's a great point that Snape was already older in some ways than Lily, but not socially adept or poised.  And the poor kid was tongue-tied about love, though so painfully honest in every other way.  God, you just have to feel sorry for him!
Olwen August 19th, 2007 - 11:57 AM	Re: Lily Evans Potter – attempt at a character analysis Nyctalus, this is a beautiful essay. Thanks for putting Lily in perspective for us. I really liked the fact that you included the description of Lily on the pedestal from 'Godric's Hollow': "a woman with long hair and a kind, pretty face". It's a bland description, applicable to any of a million young women. The fascinating thing is that Lily comes to life through Snape's memories, that in all the talks Harry had with Sirius and James, they spoke mostly about James, and our only other source is Slughorn who praises Lily to butter Harry up. I like the way you emphasize Lily as a living girl and young woman with some tremendously appealling characteristics and some flaws as well. I think as time went on, and Lily and Severus were in different houses, she began to make friends in Gryffindor and peer pressure took a toll on her friendship with Severus. And James and Sirius were in all her classes by day, at every meal at the Gryffindor table and in the common room at night. It would be hard for any young girl to resist someone pursuing her, particularly if he was making a concerted effort to be funny and charming. Poor Harry grew up not knowing anything about her. Just like the Potter monument is invisible to muggles, Petunia made Lily invisible to Harry when she failed in her duty to tell him about her sister. In the end, Harry and Lily were well served by Snape.  "Look at me" really applies to Lily as well because  it's the first time Harry gets to meet the real woman, the funny enthusiastic Lily and the Lily that turned away from Severus. And despite the loss of her friendship, Snape built a pedestal to her in his heart and kept her there always because he loved her just the way she was.
Sly_Lady August 19th, 2007 - 12:10 PM	Re: Lily Evans Potter – attempt at a character analysis You're right, Olwen, it's interesting that it was JKR's 'spiteful bully' who knew Lily so well and was rejected by her in favor of James, who brings Lily to life for Harry and for us. Snape turns out to be a forgiving soul. He's terribly wounded by Lily's rejection, but able to get beyond his pain and keep loving her unconditionally. Both Snape and Lily are shown to Harry in their essential humanity. Snape is awkward and needy, Lily is a bit arrogant in her popularity, and quite unkind as she dumps Severus. Yet I think Snape is so uninterested in artificially prettying things up, so direct and blunt, that he gives Harry the precise truth about who they were as children. It's far more powerful than than a series of posed photographs.
Nyctalus August 19th, 2007 - 2:32 PM	Re: Lily Evans Potter – attempt at a character analysis Thanks for your kind words, Olwen! It's an interesting take that Snape brings Lily back to life for Harry... Which means that in some sense, Lily's sacrifice when she died, which made Harry stay alive, also triggered Snape to live on, encouraged by Dumbledore, and be able to show to Harry who Lily truly had been. Thanks to Snape's self-sacrifying determination to do anything to protect Harry, which ultimately took his own life, Harry was finally able to see these memories. It's as if when Snape's dying, he's offering Harry a part of his mother back instead. The memory of Lily then lives on in her son, even when Snape is gone. Quote from: Sly_Lady Both Snape and Lily are shown to Harry in their essential humanity. Snape is awkward and needy, Lily is a bit arrogant in her popularity, and quite unkind as she dumps Severus. Yet I think Snape is so uninterested in artificially prettying things up, so direct and blunt, that he gives Harry the precise truth about who they were as children. It's far more powerful than than a series of posed photographs Yes, the truth is much richer than any idolized statue or even the ghostly images called back by the Stone of Resurrection. Lily, who could fly like a bird and make petals move, who was worried about her sister and people being mean to each other, could also be arrogant and unkind, just like any real person. I like that better...
Sly_Lady August 21st, 2007 - 8:42 AM	Re: Lily Evans Potter – attempt at a character analysis Quote from: Nyctalus on August 19, 2007, 02:32:45 PM Thanks for your kind words, Olwen! It's an interesting take that Snape brings Lily back to life for Harry... Which means that in some sense, Lily's sacrifice when she died, which made Harry stay alive, also triggered Snape to live on, encouraged by Dumbledore, and be able to show to Harry who Lily truly had been. Thanks to Snape's self-sacrifying determination to do anything to protect Harry, which ultimately took his own life, Harry was finally able to see these memories. It's as if when Snape's dying, he's offering Harry a part of his mother back instead. The memory of Lily then lives on in her son, even when Snape is gone. When Lily chose to die for Harry, you're right, Nyctalus, her act also gave Snape a purpose, so he lived on because of his love for her. I find it inspiring, because she was no more a great hero that any other person who sacrifices herself for someone she loves. She was not a saint, yet her death set into motion amazing things. (This probably reflects my irritable mood today more than anything, but I'll toss it out anyway. Forgive me if you can.) The mid-teenage years are probably a very poor gauge of what a person will be when she/he grows older. At least I hope not. As someone who was not a popular, socially powerful girl, Lily's adolescent arrogance and self-righteousness toward young Severus grate on me. She naturally enjoyed her popularity, but chose to curry favor with the Marauders. Probably most teenage girls might be tempted to do the same. I know I'm judging her too harshly, but until then, her best friend was an unattractive, socially inept geek who was passionately loyal to her. So in the process of being popular, she decided that Severus just didn't cut it. So much for the Lily Evans who saw the best in people. Maybe she did see the best of Snape, but it wasn't good enough in comparison with the Quidditch hero and class bully… She allowed herself to be persuaded by James' half-truths and omissions about Severus's guilt in the so-called "Prank," in spite of the fact that she'd known him well. Then she watches as the boy she's attracted to assaults her former best friend. Having intervened, she make James mad and he escalates the attack on Severus to a really creepy level. She then walks away. Even if she believes Severus is a Dark Lord in training and that James Potter is a knight in shining armor, once she stepped in, she should have done something effective. Most kind-hearted girls I know wouldn't leave a stray dog to be tortured by a gang, and in that case, how do you justify letting it happen to a friend you've known since you were a little kid? Having said all these judgmental things, I do believe Lily was a good person. She loved Harry devotedly, she was obviously a loving, loyal wife and a kind friend. She died heroically and great good happened as the result of her sacrifice. But she was no more a saint that any of us flawed mortals and what we saw of her during her fifth year didn't impress me.
Spirit August 22nd, 2007 - 9:40 AM	Re: Lily Evans Potter – attempt at a character analysis A very good essay, Nyctalus!  I agree with everything said on the matter. I must say I did not particularly like Lily, maybe I'm prejudiced but the positive qualities Lily displayed are not enough to make up for her negative ones, not in my mind, at least.  It's all a matter of taste, but I just don't like this type of people.  So I wholeheartedly agree with Sly_Lady here. I haven't delved into a deeper analysis, so my impression is mostly superficial, but she strongly reminded me of Ginny (I'm not fond of Ginny, I must say), especially every time she was lashing out on someone - on Petunia, on Snape and even on James.  Actually after this book I can safely say I like Ginny better than Lily.
Nyctalus August 24th, 2007 - 6:45 PM	Re: Lily Evans Potter – attempt at a character analysis Thanks Spirit! I think what Lily was showing was actually most of all lack of life experience; she was naïve and she was a bit clueless about reality. As far as I can see, entirely natural for being a well cared-for teenager girl who never had any problems of "fitting in" anywhere. Life experience - in other words nothing that wouldn’t change over time, had she been given the opportunity to live on. I don't want to see her in a too negative light and I'm sure she was a really good person at heart. Lily had great ideas, great values regarding “good” and “evil”, but I think she might have been unable to see past her own little gilded horizon. My problem with kids like Lily is not what they are, but what people make of them; hoisting them up on a pedestal won't be too good for them in the long run, because sooner or later they will fall and get hurt. Lily was certanly right about the dangers of the Dark Side, but I think harping on about it to Severus had about as much effect on him as Hermione knitting woollen hats to Hogwart’s house elves; it’s all seen from a “superior” position, from someone who has a fair choice from the start. If you go on telling people what to do without even trying to look at things from their perspective, listening to them, considering their realistic options, then you probably shouldn't get surprised or offended when they don’t act according to your wishes. Well, as Sirius ”bracingly” said – ”we were all idiots!” Except for, maybe, those who had experienced neglect and abuse on their own skin, both at home and from other kids. Those who had suffered at an early age and didn’t have any illusions left about the world being divided between black and white or “good people” and “bad people”.  But Lily was never one of those; she simply didn’t have that frame of reference. In her life, I imagine, she had always had the advantage; she was a subject of people’s jealousy, or of their adoration – starting with her sister compared to her parents and ending with her different aspirants for boyfriends – rather than having to play the second violin in any sense.  So even if I believe Lily was a warm and kind person, who usually did care for people, I don’t think she could really grasp what it felt like to be an “outsider” like Severus... She was expecting him to stop liking the Dark Arts, not realizing why he felt a need of them. And I guess the more Lily showed signs to be interested in James & Co, the further Severus was drifting towards the Dark Side...
subtle science August 24th, 2007 - 7:06 PM	Re: Lily Evans Potter – attempt at a character analysis Excellent points, Nyctalus! Lily does seem, in many ways, like Hermione--a good heart, but a bit too single-minded in what she thinks is right.  Hermione has the right idea--treating House Elves as free beings--but she plows ahead without regard for what the Elves themselves might feel/think.  Lily's much the same:  she has a valid point in warning Snape against such as Mulciber and Avery; however, she's so caught up in her righteousness that she loses sight of Snape himself. Both characters mean well and have a valid point--but they fall into the trap of youth and inexperience:  once they've "figured it out," so to speak, they are like steamrollers in their convictions.  They may well be right--but they have no diplomacy, because they are so passionate about the issue, and they are blinded to others' feelings. Which really does just reiterate what you just said.  Lily actually doesn't remind me much of Ginny.  Lily comes across to me as a much deeper thinker than Ginny; while both criticize people, Lily seems to do so from a real morality.....both may be "cheeky," but Lily shows more depth of understanding of issues (although Ginny, to give her her due, seems to be coming around a bit in DH)--even if it leads her to that blindness.  The difference is illustrated by the fact that Ginny acts (ie, the hexing), while Lily speaks.
Nyctalus August 25th, 2007 - 5:05 PM	Re: Lily Evans Potter – attempt at a character analysis I agree, subtle - Lily seems indeed a bit more like Hermione than like Ginny... I don't recall seeing Ginny being concerned, caring for others like Lily did (perhaps except for Harry). For example, even if Lily didn't seem to really understand what was going on with her sister, she still worried about her and was sad about Petunia's rejection. And when Lily got angry with people annoying her she'd tell them off rather than hex them like Ginny seemed to have preferred...  ETA: But, as you say, Ginny did come around a bit in DH, especially after the battle of Hogwarts, when we saw he attending to wounded students...
lorna August 29th, 2007 - 8:59 PM	Re: Lily Evans Potter – attempt at a character analysis That was a great essay Nyctalus, I especially liked how you used The Tale of the Three Brothers as a link to looking at Lily's behavior. I one thing that strikes me about Lily above everything else is her naviete. I think she honestly believes that just barking at people about something (like Snape and is friends) will change behavior.  Her discussion of James and the Prank I found sad and a touch pathetic...the way the dialogue is written it really comes across like Lily just accepted whatever the Gryffindor version of the event was (I don't think she would likely have questioned James over the incident)and really, nothing Snape might say was moving her off her opinion that what was done was "brave".  I can almost see why Snape gave up trying to give his version..Lily wasn't listening anyway. From what little we know...she goes along with the foolish decision re: Pettigrew as secretkeeper.  She writes and sends letters while in hiding.  She believes just a little too much in herself and the Marauders bravery and their ability to defend themselves.  She certainly trusted unwisely. And maybe that comes from always being the "cool" kid, the talented daughter, the prettier sister, the popular girl. You don't learn the street smarts. You can take the "moral high ground" and discard a friend because you'll always have another one. And if your never beaten, you don't learn you can be.  I think that's Lily and James and the Marauders tragedy...had they been a little less popular, talented,etc at school...they might actually have been a whole lot wiser.  I don't think it's an accident that Rowling basically "kills" these characters in their very early twenties when one really hasn't got  much more life experience than high school. I'm betting a thirty five year old Lily would have done things quite a bit differently.
Aluna August 30th, 2007 - 8:04 AM	Re: Lily Evans Potter – attempt at a character analysis I really enjoyed reading your essay, Nyctalus, as well as all of the subsequent posts. Lily at 16 seems to feel the way a lot of girls her age do: morally and intellectually superior to boys (a feeling not altogether unfounded, for girls do mature faster than boys -- though I agree that Severus is in some ways an exception). The overt self-righteousness might be what girls unconsciously use to attract boys (like Hermione and Ron), hence Lily's lecturing of both James and Severus. Even at age nine, Lily's voice was "lofty" in front of Sirius and James, and I feel that she was showing off a bit her friendship with Severus and her influence over him. I have a nagging suspicion that my Evolution professor would comment here that little Lily on the Hogwarts Express, unbeknownst to herself, sent little James the message that one of these days she would grow into a strong and protective mother (which she did).... (Well, my mind has become a bit warped by those Evolution classes ). Also, Lily's ego must have been flattered when James seemed to change in their seventh year -- probably thinking, "did I bring out the light in this guy?" Lily thought Snape a lost case; little did she know to what extraordinary degree she'd bring out the light in him...