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[mimblewimble]

As I was writing I thought that perhapes Filch ment to steal, however for the life of me I couldn't think of why...for some reason I was dead set on thinking that Filch was not a real word. 

[merry]

I knew an Arabella growing up.  She was the first woman in the state to own her own auto sales dealership.  She was my idol so to speak.  She was tough in business, but a very classy lady otherwise.  (Alter of War would work for her.)  I always cringe when I read about "Figgy."  However, I wonder if it isn't more a reference to figs or the fig tree?

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fig#Symbolism

It is often said that the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil is a fig tree from the book of Genesis for its large leaves and also the nature of the fig itself. In the Book of Jeremiah in the Old Testament rotten figs are used as a symbol for destruction, and in the New Testament Jesus rebukes an unfruitful fig tree. The fig is one of the two sacred trees in Islam.

Because of the peculiar form of the flower of figs, ancient Indians regarded the fig as a flowerless tree. ( The tiny flowers of the fig are out of sight, clustered inside the green "fruits", technically a synconium. ) Buddhist and Hindu texts sometimes refer to 'seeking flowers in a fig tree' to indicate something that is pointless or impossible, or to indicate the total absence of some quality (compare the Australian English language expression 'why search for the bunyip?'). References to the flowers of a fig may also be used to indicate great rarity- roughly comparable to the English expression 'rare as hen's teeth'. Pāli scholar K.R. Norman collected references to fig flowers in the Pāli canon in his translation of the Samyutta Nikaya, as well as writing an article entitled Rare as Fig Flowers that was published with his collected papers by the Pāli Text Society.

Rarity - a squib who can see dementors.  Ties right in with knowledge of good and evil.  Seems like a wonderful fit to me! 

And suggests, in spite of her repeated assertions in OotP that she's useless, she can't perform magic, that she might be the one to be able to perform magic "later in life." 

[Silver Ink Pot]

Great thread, great posts, just . . . . great! 

For Mrs. Figg, there is also the phrase, "I don't care a fig," which may be euphemistic for the "F" word, but also in the sense that a fig is a small, useless thing.  That's the way some wizards think of Squibs, so it works.

Edna St. Vincent Millay wrote a book called "A Few Figs from Thistles," which included her most famous poem, "First Fig":

My candle burns at both ends;
It will not last the night;
But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends–
It gives a lovely light!

"Fig" may be a pun on "figurative language." 

Also, "fig leaf" is a term that can mean "a flimsy disguise," going back to the Garden of Eden when Adam and Eve tried to hide behind fig leaves.

[merry]

   Horrors!  All the quoting of literature, including the poetry, makes me aware of just how much I've forgotten.  I used to know, and quote, Edna St. Vincent Milay with ease.  Thanks for the reminders.

Better get a copy of Bartletts soon.


_________________________________________________________________________________________________

About name meanings, has anyone commented on the  Richard-less Tom-Harry combo?

[Lura]

Rarity - a squib who can see dementors.  Ties right in with knowledge of good and evil.  Seems like a wonderful fit to me!

It would be a good fit - if she was actually a rarity.  She's only just as rare as the next Squib.

"Incidentally, can Squibs see Dementors?" [Fudge] added, looking left and right along the bench where he sat.
""Yes we can!" said Mrs. Figg indignantly.

She says quite clearly "we."  She doesn't imply that she's abnormal in this way.

[Aluna]

Lura -- to go back a bit to Tom Marvolo Riddle... I think "Marvolo" comes from Italian, meaning "sea" and "flight," but it also looks like "marvel" to me.

I found this in the Wikipedia article about Lord Voldemort:

Alternatively, Voldemort may also be a form of Valdemar, a Germanic form of Slavic Vladimir, meaning "Great ruler" or "Ruling with fame". Valdemar is also the name of the main character in Edgar Allen Poe's short story The Facts in the Case of M. Valdemar, about a man equally desperate to avoid death who elects to enter a hypnotically-induced coma in order to extend his life.

In addition, "Voldemort" sounds very similar to the German word der Völkermord (the German word for "genocide").

As for Tom... it comes from an Aramaic word for "twin," which is even physically fitting because Quirrell and Voldemort were almost like Siamese twins in PS/SS -- and in OotP, Harry was wondering if Voldemort wouldn't suddenly burst out from his own skull. According to my Collins dream dictionary, dreaming about twins could "relate to two distinct parts of your personality that are in conflict."

Also, Tom Marvolo Riddle has 16 letters like Harry James Potter.   

[paris_parts]

Originally I posted this as a new topic but it bombed and then this one is getting read so...here it is again for your consideration:

Luna as we all know refers to our moon.  In fact, most folks don't know that our satellite's actual name is Luna just as our star's name is Sol.
What interests me is the combination of words in her name.
Good;Love;Luna.  Which is the focus and which is the adjectival? Luna could refer to changes as the moon (hey, way back in Shakespeare's day) changes. Juliet: Oh swear not to me by the inconsistant moon..."
Luna herself has a pretty flat affect but then she does rapidly change when she gets to announce Quiddich; or fight the DE; or when her dad's rag is insulted.
Good, as in she is one of the good guys.
Love, well I think we will see Neville make something of this.  In general she is rather the opposite--lonely and needing to be loved.

So let's say Good is the focus.  The left over would be Loveluna or Lunalove.  Lunalove might harken back to our ancestors' worshiping the moon.  I could go on about new moons and the relationship to agrarian primitive civilizations and bullfighting, but I'll save it for someone who needs the background.  What does it have to do with magic and Harry Potter?  A bit of this and that but nothing in the main.

Luna as the focus leaves us Lovegood (her name), and goodlove.  Both very selfexplanitory.

Love as the focus and we have Goodluna and Lunagood.  Taken one way it may mean that she is very adept at revealing moon qualities or even orbiting a wanderer. Why do I include the latter?  Planet means wanderer.  And she does orbit Harry if you want to think of him as a wanderer.

So I pose this idea:  Love is the key focus and her character does orbit Harry.  Does she love Harry? Perhaps in a slightly more than platonic sense but she will be unlikely to usurp Ginny. I think Harry would be better off with her than Ginny because as a redhead, Ginny is a firecracker in waiting. And Luna compliments Harry by portraying different coping mechanisms and a different temperment.  But that is just drivil because JKR won't go there. What do you think?  Will we be very likely to see much of Luna in book 7?

[zgirnius]

So I pose this idea:  Love is the key focus and her character does orbit Harry.  Does she love Harry? Perhaps in a slightly more than platonic sense but she will be unlikely to usurp Ginny. I think Harry would be better off with her than Ginny because as a redhead, Ginny is a firecracker in waiting. And Luna compliments Harry by portraying different coping mechanisms and a different temperment.  But that is just drivil because JKR won't go there. What do you think?  Will we be very likely to see much of Luna in book 7?

I believe that Rowling has said that Ravenclaws will have some role in Book 7. I imagine this means we will see more of Luna, since she is the Ravenclaw we know best already.

[Silver Ink Pot]

paris_parts:  I do think we will see Luna.  One writer, John Granger, predicted that Luna might become Harry's girlfriend in Book 6 because in Alchemy, in order to make the Philosopher's Stone, the Sun, represented by Harry/Leo/Gryffindor Lion has to "join" with the Moon, represented obviously by Luna.  She didn't become his girlfriend, but they did go to a dance together, and Harry always has meaningful talks with her.  (Can you tell I like her better than Ginny? haha)

Aluna:  Great stuff about Voldemort - I had never read the one about the German word for Genocide!    der Völkermord - Very similar in spelling, isn't it?  Wow!  And we know that JKR has said she is using Hitler as her model for Voldemort and the DEs.

Marvolo reminds me of Professor Marvel in the Wizard of Oz.    He's the "seer" who has the horse and wagon and tells Dorothy to go home before the tornado, then he appears as the "Man Behind the Curtain" as the Wizard.

There is also the Yorkshire poet, Andrew Marvell, who lived in the 1600s.
http://www.luminarium.org/sevenlit/marvell/marvbio.htm

[Morgan Emerald-Incantata]

Oh goody! Name meanings, one of my favourite subjects! I really have no time at the moment so just a very short contribution from me now ...

Some additional thoughts on "Figg":

First, on tree symbolism ... the Longevity part seems to fit in with the possibility that Arabella is the one who might perform magic late in life ... Vigor corresponds nicely to the "Alterer of War", I think. Not sure about the Corpulence though 

Fig - Argument; Longevity
Fig Tree - Vigor and Corpulence

And some completely random find:

James Figg (1695-1734) was a British bare-knuckle boxer. In 1719, he became the first English bare-knuckle champion. Figg was also a great fencer. After his rise to fame, he started his own school and taught boxing, fencing, and quarterstaff. Figg was inducted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame in 1992

Arabella indeed seems quite the fighting lady!

... and one even more far-out finding:

How to Frame a Figg (movie, 1971)
 
Plot Summary: Don Knotts is Hollis Figg, the dumbest bookkeeper in town. When the city fathers buy a second-hand computer to cover up their financial shenanigans, they promote Figg to look after things, knowing he'll never catch on. Their plan backfires when Figg becomes self-important and accidentally discovers their plot.

Tagline: Runaway hilarity when Don Knotts runs down City Hall in search of the buried secrets of a gang of crooked politicians [...]

... or not? Again, "Alterer of War" comes to mind and unexpected abilities ...

Just on a side note: did she really SEE those dementors? I thought she FELT them for sure and because of her background and upbringing in the Magical World she was able to give a fairly detailed description ...

Additional thought on "Filch":

filch = To take (something, especially something of little value) in a furtive manner; snitch. See synonyms at steal.

To steal, eh? No clue there but the "snitch" part caught my eye: James' "nicking the snitch" comes to mind, the fact that James and Lily in an original manuscript were to have the Philosophers Stone in their Gringott's vault and the fact that quite possibly he also -- er -- "borrowed" the HBP's Potions book ... but what to make of that ...



Lastly, I think that his name sounds a bit like "filth"

Aluna: great post on "Voldemort"!

[cruplover]

Aluna, the similarity to der Völkermord is remarkable, especially when paired with JKR's comments about Hilter.  The Dark Lord gets darker at every turn.

paris_parts, I too think we'll see more of Luna in book 7.  I've also thought that she and Neville would be an interesting pair, but I'm afraid I'm not much of a shipper. 

MorE, thanks for the additional information on figs.  I've also wondered if she truly saw the dementors, or merely FELT them, and had enough coaching/background information to know what wizards SEE.

[mimblewimble]

  You all come up with such great ideas!

Aluna  That bit about Voldemort is really good.  I believe that Toms mothers name, Merope, comes from a constilation. (Like so many other names we know) 

She is one of the seven sisters (which really is just a cluster of seven stars) and she is the only one who married a mortal.  (like Tom's mother married a muggle)  because she married a mortal she herself became mortal and faded away (like Merope died after Tom was born).

(please feel free to correct me if I am wrong)

[Morgan Emerald-Incantata]

mimblewimble: no need for corrections, you are quite correct!

In Greek mythology, several unrelated women went by the name Merope (bee-mask later reinterpreted as honey-like or eloquent), which may, therefore, have denoted a position in the cult of the Great Mother rather than a mere individual's name:

(1) Merope, one of the Heliades
(2) Merope, foster mother of Oedipus, wife of Polybus
(3) Merope, one of the Oceanids, a daughter of Oceanus and Tethys, mother of Phaeton by Helios or Clymenus
(4) Merope, one of the Pleiades, she married a mortal, Sisyphus, and was thus the faintest star in the star cluster that bears their name. With Sisyphus, she had one son: Glaucus.
(5) Merope of Khios, consort/daughter of Oenopion, linked with Orion (q.v.) who fell in love with Merope but Oenopion did not want the marriage to happen. Orion raped Merope. For revenge, Oenopion got Orion drunk and stabbed out his eyes, then cast him into the sea. Hephaestus took pity on the blind Orion and gave him a young boy as a guide. The boy guided him east, where the rising sun restored Orion's sight. Orion then decided to kill (6) Oenopion, but Hephaestus had built the king an underground chamber. Orion couldn't find the king and went to Delos, where Artemis slew him.

You obviously refer to the "Merope, one of the Pleiades" and I also believe that this is the one JKR is drawing a parallel to.

Now, as to her son, Glaucus ("shiny" or "bright" or "bluish-green"), there is not that much interesting to find, but there are other characters in Greek mythology of that same name and these two little snippets of information really stood out to me:

Glaucus was a Greek sea-god, the son of Anthedon and Alcyone.

[...] According to Ovid, Glaucus began life as a mortal fisherman living in the Boeotian city of Anthedon. He discovered by accident a magical herb which could bring the fish he caught back to life, and decided to try eating it. The herb made him immortal, but also caused him to grow fins instead of arms and a fish's tail instead of legs, forcing him to dwell forever in the sea. Glaucus was initially upset by this side-effect, but Oceanus and Tethys received him well and he was quickly accepted among the deities of the sea, learning from them the art of prophecy.

Glaucus fell in love with the beautiful nymph Scylla, but she was appalled by his fish-like features and fled onto land when he tried to approach her. He asked the witch Circe for a potion to make Scylla fall in love with him, but Circe fell in love with him. She tried to win his heart with her most passionate and loving words, telling him to scorn Scylla and stay with her. But he replied that trees would grow on the ocean floor and seaweed would grow on the highest mountain before he would stop loving Scylla. In her anger, Circe poisoned the pool where Scylla bathed, transforming her into a terrible monster with twelve feet and six heads. [...]

Glaucus or Glaukos was a son of Minos and Pasiphae.

One day, Glaucus was playing with a ball or mouse and suddenly disappeared. His parents went to the Oracle at Delphi who told them "A marvelous creature has been born amongst you: whoever finds the true likeness for this creature will also find the child."

They interpreted this to refer to a newborn calf in Minos' herd. Three times a day, the calf changed color from white to red to black. Polyidus observed the similarity to the ripening of the fruit of the mulberry (or possibly the blackberry) plant, and Minos sent him to find Glaucus.

Searching for the boy, Polyidus saw an owl driving bees away from a wine-cellar in Minos' palace. Inside the wine-cellar was a cask of honey, with Glaucus dead inside. Minos demanded Glaucus be brought back to life, though Polyidus objected. Minos was justified in his insistence, as the Delphic Oracle had said that the seer would restore the child alive. Minos shut Polyidus up in the wine-cellar with a sword. When a snake appeared nearby, Polyidus killed it with the sword. Another snake came for the first, and after seeing its mate dead, the second serpent left and brought back an herb which then brought the first snake back to life. Following this example, Polyidus used the same herb to resurrect Glaucus.

Minos refused to let Polyidus leave Crete until he taught Glaucus the art of divination. Polyidus did so, but then, at the last second before leaving, he asked Glaucus to spit in his mouth. Glaucus did so and forgot everything he had been taught. [...]

*** ALERT ***
Just for fun some additional info on Merope / the Pleiades:

It is interesting though completely irrelevant to note that Merope is not in fact the faintest star of the constellation ... Celaeno is and therefore often referred to as "the lost star". Another interesting little fact, although again probably competely and utterly irrelevant, is that the Pleiades are part of the zodiac sign Taurus. I'll leave it to others to find some siginificance in this nerdy ramble

The Pleiades, companions of Artemis (ar'-te-mis), were the seven daughters of the Titan Atlas (at'-las) and the sea-nymph Pleione (pleye-oh'-nee) born on Mount Cyllene (seye-lee'-nee). They are the sisters of Calypso, Hyas, the Hyades, and the Hesperides. The Pleiades were nymphs in the train of Artemis, and together with the seven Hyades were called the Atlantides, Dodonides, or Nysiades, nursemaids and teachers to the infant Bacchus.

There is some debate as to the origin of the name Pleiades. Previously, it was accepted the name is derived from the name of their mother, Pleione. However, the name Pleiades is more likely to come from (to sail), because the Pleiades star cluster are visible in the Mediterranean at night during the summer, from the middle of May until the beginning of November, which coincided with the sailing season in antiquity. This derivation was recognized by the ancients, including Virgil (Georgics 1.136-138).

The Pleiades must have had considerable charms, for several of the most prominent male Olympian gods (including Zeus, Poseidon, and Ares) engaged in affairs with the seven heavenly sisters - and inevitably, these relationships resulted in the birth of children:

(1) Maia - eldest of the seven Pleiades, was mother of Hermes by Zeus
(2) Electra was mother of Dardanus and Iasion by Zeus.
(3) Taygete was mother of Lacedaemon, also by Zeus.
(4) Alcyone was mother of Hyrieus by Poseidon.
(5) Celaeno was mother of Lycus and Eurypylus by Poseidon.
(6) Sterope (also Asterope) was mother of Oenomaus by Ares.
(7) Merope youngest of the seven Pleiades, was wooed by Orion. In other mythic contexts she married Sisyphus and, becoming mortal, faded away. She bore to Sisyphus several sons.

After Atlas was forced to carry the world on his shoulders, Orion began to pursue all of the Pleiades, and Zeus transformed them first into doves, and then into stars to comfort their father. The constellation of Orion is said to still pursue them across the night sky.In the Pleiades star cluster only six of the stars shine brightly, the seventh, Merope, shines dully because she is shamed for eternity for having an affair with a mortal. Some myths also say that the star that doesn't shine is Electra, mourning the death of Dardanus, though a few myths say it is Sterope.

One of the most memorable myths involving the Pleiades is the story of how these sisters became, quite literally, stars. According to some versions of the tale, all seven sisters committed suicide because they were so saddened by either the fate of their father, Atlas, or the loss of their siblings, the Hyades. In turn Zeus, the ruler of the Greek gods, immortalized the sisters by placing them in the sky. There these seven stars formed the constellation known thereafter as the Pleiades.

The Pleiades' high visibility in the night sky has guaranteed it a special place in many cultures, both ancient and modern. In Greek mythology, they represented the Seven Sisters, while to the Vikings, they were Freya's hens, and their name in many old European languages compares them to a hen with chicks.

To the Bronze Age people of Europe, such as the Celts (and probably considerably earlier), the Pleiades were associated with mourning and with funerals, since at that time in history, on the cross-quarter day between the autumn equinox and the winter solstice (see Samhain, also Halloween or All Souls Day), which was a festival devoted to the remembrance of the dead, the cluster rose in the eastern sky as the sun's light faded in the evening. It was from this acronychal rising that the Pleiades became associated with tears and mourning. As a result of precession over the centuries, the Pleiades no longer marked the festival, but the association has nevertheless persisted, and accounts for the significance of the Pleiades astrologically.

The ancient Aztecs of Mexico and Central America based their calendar upon the Pleiades. Their calendric year began when priests first remarked the asterism rising heliacally in the east, immediately before the sun's dawn light obliterated the view of the stars.Heliacal risings very often mark important calendar points for ancient peoples.

The heliacal rising pf the Pleiades (around June) also begins the new year for the Maori of New Zealand, who call the Pleiades Mataariki. The Australian Aborigines believed the Pleiades were a woman who had been nearly raped by Kidili, the man in the moon. Alternatively, they were seven sisters called the Makara.

The Sioux of North America had a legend that linked the origin of the Pleiades to Devils Tower. It was common among the indigenous peoples of the Americas to measure keenness of vision by the number of stars the viewer could see in the Pleiades, a practice which was also used in historical Europe, especially in Greece.

In Japan, the Pleiades are a known as Subaru, a tortoise, and have given their name to the car manufacturer. In Chinese constellations, they are f4 mao, the hairy head of the white tiger of the West, while the name of the Hindu God Kartikeya means him of the Pleiades.

In Western astrology they represent coping with sorrow and were considered a single one of the medieval fixed stars. As such, they are associated with quartz and fennel. In Indian astrology the Pleiades were known as the asterism (nakshatra) Krittika (which in Sanskrit is translated as "the cutters.")

The Pleiades are called the star of fire, and their ruling deity is the Vedic god Agni, the god of the sacred fire. It is one of the most prominent of the nakshatras, and is associated with anger and stubborness.

[Shoehorn Diva]

Thanks for the topic Lura, we learn so much on this one, including stuff I knew once before.

Tom Marvolo Riddle is a funny one. The first Tom I know of is Jesus' apostle. They all had negative and positive attributes, eg, Judas the Betrayor. Tom was the one who doubted Jesus. I don't see how that can be relevant, so it may be an illusion to Riddle being and 'Tom, Dick or Harry' with a bit of inbred and Hogwarts founding ancestry, and no parents. Tom - Harry. Marvolo does sound like something to do with marvel. So - common/marvel/mystique?

[Morgan Emerald-Incantata]

Marvolo ...

the volo part struck me as having to do with either (1) velle / volo / volui = "to want", "to wish" (also related to voluntas and "volition") or (2) volare = "to fly", "to flee", "to rush" (also related to volatile]) ... another possibility could be (3) volvere = "to turn", "to spin" (and also related to the latin equivalents of "unstaedy", "fickle", "unsettled", "variable").

Mar is more difficult ... Obviously, (1) mare = "sea" comes to mind, but that really doesn't seem to fit ... I was more thinking along the lines of (2) Mars / Martis = "God of war", "battle", "fight", "war" or (3) mas / maris = "male".